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Report 130
Report #130 Skillset: Stealth Skill: Screen Org: Nekotai Status: Rejected Feb 2009 Furies' Decision: We do not believe this to be necessary. Problem: Screen is fairly high-up in Stealth and continues to be one of the least useful guild abilities in the game. A defense which serves only the purpose of protecting one from Appraise and Snoop is highly useless in Lusternia. Seriously, consider how often Appraise is used in Lusternia for any purpose beyond occasionally testing novices. Solution #1: Change Screen to a 3-5p ability that removes the user from all enemy lists of people on the same plane. This would help to streamline Stealth towards a more sneaking-around-the-landscape purpose, and the ability would finally see some usage beyond that of Expanding Defense List Ability. Essentially a Gloomtide for the self. Solution #2: 3-4 power ability that imitates Deepcover for personal enemies. So if Ashteru has Synl enemied (so his traps will hit Synl) and if Synl puts on a mask of Xenthos (who Ashteru has not enemied), then Synl will not be hit by traps. Similarly, if Xenthos was enemied and Synl was not, then Synl (masked as Xenthos) will now be hit. Solution #3: Something else useful for Screen. PLEASE note that while my solutions may not be fitting, Screen really is as useless as abilities come. Sure, not quite as bad as pre-change Weathersight, but hey, you get the idea. Player Comments: ---on 2/8 @ 06:03 writes: Solution 1 seems more fitting for Screen and closer to what it was proposed to be like in the beginning ---on 2/12 @ 10:25 writes: Should probably add the restriction that this ability would be stripped if the user takes any aggressive action or is targetted by any direct damage as the main thrust seems to be able to sneak up to the offending group/mage and not to entirely avoid all effects that require personal enemy status. ---on 2/12 @ 19:28 writes: Well, in either case, I don't think it would make much of a difference, as the power cost would prevent whoring. Still, I agree that if the user is targetted by direct damage, the abilities drop (no to aggressive actions as things like Infiltrate are considered aggressive for some reason.) ---on 2/13 @ 05:31 writes: Dropping on aggressive action is pretty vital, otherwise this ends up being a love-potion type effect that a demesne holder cannot reject and which the stealth user can be set up beforehand. In addition, for the proposed power cost (3p), it would take a maximum of 24 seconds to recover power which would mean it would need to either only last 10-12 seconds to prevent whoring or have it cost 5p (if the ability lasts 30 seconds) or 10p (if the ability lasts 60 seconds), otherwise you really can just use it over and over with only a second or so worth of interruption. ---on 2/13 @ 06:39 writes: As I said, I agree to it dropping on being targetted by damage - how is this anything like love potion if you can simply point cudgel/staff? Still see no need to have it drop on aggro actions, as direct damage will occur in pretty much every situation where aggro-dropping would be relevant. ---on 2/13 @ 16:58 writes: Having it drop on aggressive action is a necessity and would still make the proposed suggestion for this skill very powerful, particularly in conjunction with traps. A stealth user should not be able to walk through and attack others and/or attack denizens (this is particularly true when used in conjunction with masquerade/veil) with no worry about passive effects at all. I can see allowing quick movement through a demesne to or away from a target, but once there its effectiveness should end. The skillset is based around subterfuge not immunity. ---on 2/13 @ 17:13 writes: In fact, having it avoid passive abilities entirely already has -huge- application during village revolts, even if it did drop on aggressive action/direct damage as it would allow the stealth user to move at full speed through an enemy demesne/traps to influence denizens unhindered (as influencing/debating is entirely non-aggressive), tack of masquerade and the stealth user is nearly untouchable for the period the combination of skills are active unless others are targeting the stealth user explicitly...and even then it hinders any attempt to pin you a stealth user with this ability active greatly. That being said, using this ability should probably be considered aggressive. ---on 2/14 @ 01:41 writes: As your comment seems focused on use during a group situation (revolts, raids, etc.) where a demesne must be held, do remember that Stealth users can already do this - Gloomtide in Night allows all Coven members to be removed from all enemy lists. Furthermore, most of your comments are baseless - when I take an aggressive action, if the target notices me, they can simply ENEMY me. In the case of the second solution, the only passive effect it would allow one to bypass is Demesne Watch which, as you said, allows Stealth to be a method of subterfuge and nothing else. ---on 2/14 @ 01:50 writes: Since you mentioned it, the one suggestion is just a copy of the Night skill Gloomtide with a power cost instead of a coven cost. From what I remember, copy skills aren't looked at too favourably. ---on 2/14 @ 07:24 writes: Unsure about the copy skill aspect being accepted, but the expanded powercost makes it a bit more acceptable ---on 2/15 @ 02:59 writes: I've already noted my thoughts on this matter from past discussions we've had about the skill. Essentially copying Gloomtide is something I'm not favourable for, nor would be something I would support. Solution two is a little more palatable, but solution one just doesn ---on 2/15 @ 03:00 writes: Ahem. I can type. Just to end my botched comment above, no thank you on solution one. ---on 2/17 @ 11:25 writes: I actually like solution 1 and gives a real feel of stealth as the person sneaks past demense watch or other enemy abilities. And yes the thought concerns me that the person would just use it on prime and drop all enemy status for fun, but then again, how hard is it to re-enemy the person making that power cost worth it. And its only stealth users, how many monks do you know who would rush your demense with this. ---on 2/19 @ 00:51 writes: Solution 2 3-4 power ability that imitates Deepcover for personal enemies. So if Ashteru has Synl enemied (so his traps will hit Synl) and if Synl puts on a mask of Xenthos (who Ashteru has not enemied), then Synl will not be hit by traps. Similarly, if Xenthos was enemied and Synl was not, then Synl (masked as Xenthos) will now be hit. ---on 2/19 @ 00:52 writes: Pah. BIG NOTE HERE: My comment above is supposed to be solution #2 for this report... I just totally messed up on the syntax before finalizing. :( ---on 2/21 @ 19:00 writes: I think I like that solution better than solution 1. Less of a Gloomtide clone, more of a unique skill to Stealth, and isn't immunity. At the same time, it may start hitting one of your teammates if someone's wearing their mask and you have to enemy them. Adds a bit more strategy to the whole thing (in terms of which mask to choose and when), as well as trying to make sure your allies keep up protection scrolls if you're holding a demesne. Question: What would happen with other things such as Shrine powers / Order enemies? ---on 2/21 @ 19:04 writes: Order enemies are dependant on an org (the order) and are thus covered by Deepcover, not this. This would be an alternative to Deepcover, essentially, that covers personal enemy lists instead of org enemy lists. ---on 2/28 @ 20:08 writes: Solution 2 looks nifty, with a bit of thought required in its use ---on 2/28 @ 20:44 writes: I think evade already goes through demesne watch, so 1 seems a little redundant. 2 looks interesting.